Worklopnik advice needed - Does this look right to you?

"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce) 04/29/2019 at 14:27 • Filed to: None

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We had a new catwalk put in recently for accessing chemical blending tanks. Part of the work involved a new staircase for access to the top level. Except the stairs are a bit.....wonky. Hard to describe but it feels like they’re way unevenly spaced and the weld locations are weird.

I’m not a contractor or a welder or engineer but do these look right to anyone else? Here’s a front-ish view to give you a brief idea.

Here’s a side view of the profile the steps are taking. It’s weird to me that they added those extra plates and then had the steps follow them. And it’s hard to see, but the main beam is very thick iron/steel but that piece underneath with the angle to it is a seperate piece, tack welded on and is also much thinner. Notice how the ends of each step seem to match up with it, so the steps have a weird curve to them as you walk up it.

Then finally, we have a massive gap up to the top with the last few steps. It doesn’t seem to meet OSHA standards and that might be a problem but again, I don’t know...

Then finally we have a shot at how the first couple steps were mounted and they seem the most secure (ironically, the first step’s weld broke the first time one of us stood on it and had to be fixed)

I don’t know if I’m crazy or not, but it’s really uncomfortable and feels weirdly unsafe to use but I don’t know how to pursue getting them redone. It’ll be a few more weeks at least (these guys were SLOOOOOOOWWWWW). But at the same time I can’t have myself or any of the crew walking up there with 20-50lbs of raw material and risk tripping. I might have another shop make the stairs and send the first one the bill or something.

Any suggestions? Does this look right to anyone?

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:34

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im mostly surprised the steps are tack welded instead of bolted on

Chinny Raccoon > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:35

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Looks like someone cocked up the measurements, then bodged this together so the steps end up somewhere approximately where they are supposed to be.

Main RSJ being too steep, then the additional part put in to make the treads less steep. 

Berang > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:35

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T ake a measuring tape and get the height from step to step. Mismatched heights ARE a hazard.

M y guess is they were trying to get the angle right (not too steep) and fudged the heights, which is probably even more dangerous.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 04/29/2019 at 14:35

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Given how badly they f’ed up measurements in other areas of this catwalk (they literally had the stairs on the exact opposite corner we wanted. And they didn’t make the catwalk long enough) I’m beginning to just assume incompetence

facw > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:38

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I don’t know the rules, and have no idea about industrial safety standards, but that looks very wrong to me. I’d complain to someone.

ttyymmnn > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:38

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Looks to me more like a ship ladder, with steeper grade, narrow steps, and a shorter stepping distance between steps. Would probably take some getting used to, and there would likely be a lot of trips the first few times up and down. I can’t speak for the construction, though. Not my area.

Fuckkinja > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:40

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The fabricator messed up his rise over run math and tried to correct it without starting over. All of the steps have to be with in 1/4” height of each other for code here. Including the bottom and top step. I use 7 1/2” rise and 11 1/2” run as a basis for math than adjust the rise to accommodate the over all height. It’s really easy to draw a pattern on something and t hen cut the angles in. It doesn’t look like it will fall down though. 

Svend > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:44

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As far as I’m aware by U.K. regulations the steps are supposed to be of equal size and distance apart with steps being equal and level, otherwise they become a trip hazard.

Here’s a couple of interesting old facts about castles. The steps go up clockwise so a right handed soldier can defend himself as he retreats walking backwards into the castle and can also attack coming down the steps as the  right handed soldier trying to advance up the steps would be unable to get a swing on their sword.

Also the steps have a trip step here and there, which is an uneven placed step, so you can’t run up them. Your brain works on the principle that steps are equal to move at speed, however if a step is uneven it will cause you to trip and so you move more slowly up them as your brain registers where they are.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:44

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sounds like you may have a case there..

Censored > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:46

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The top step alone is enough to get this to fail inspection. These are absolutely not acceptable and would 100% have the company re-do their work.

OPPOsaurus WRX > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:50

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i’m sur e this has a different code to follow, but it residential and co mmercial codes (stores offices, hotels etc) there is a maximu m difference that each stair can have in height and depth and its something like 1/8"  to me it looks like they fucked up trying to fix the initial fuck up.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 14:52

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This looks janky AF. I can’t believe anyone with a concious would install this crap. I would put a caution tape across them so nobody gets hurt.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 15:06

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The angle is already quite steep, but it looks like the rails were cut according to the “correct” design, and the rise/run of the steps was miscommunicated... or the rails were specified at a length based on the base being higher, and the pitch being better, but platform height from ground was more than anticipated.

Either way, either someone was measuring the correct offset back and not the correct step height (maybe was meant to go to the bottom?) or was using a correct pitch on a rail that was no longer at the right angle. Set several steps wrong, then said “oh, fuck”, and rather than cut them back out and find the problem, added the steel and went on spacing steps as they had been. Wrong. Ending up short at the top, and done shoddily enough regardless the spacing’s uneven.

May be structurally sound-ish (though from the weld problem mentioned, I doubt it), but in no way meets code.

shop-teacher > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 15:17

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That’s FUBARed. Get a different shop to remake it. Hopefully this shop hasn’t been paid in full, but they’re obviously incompetent .

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 15:32

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I’d look at your state building codes. They might specify stair spacing and steepness, so you could give the builder legal hell  for that lousy job.

66P1800inpieces > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 15:32

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Would check OSHA and local building regs.  

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/29/2019 at 15:37

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Yeah I just did some measurements and they’re all over the board. Gonna have a quick meeting with my boss tomorrow about it. 

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Chinny Raccoon 04/29/2019 at 15:38

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The spacing on the height is even for the first few steps, but they get more and more overlap and then everything goes wrong about 6 steps up. 

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Fuckkinja 04/29/2019 at 15:39

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I think we’re going to break the welds on the steps, sand off the paint and re-weld them correctly. The materials are good, we just think there’s an extra step and messed up measurements. 

Future ND Owner > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 16:01

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Reject the work.

Per IBC the minimum stair rise is 4" and the maximum is 7". Tread depth is 11" minimum. Tolerance between largest and smallest riser height shall not exceed 3/8". Same for tread depth.

I doubt that their stair meets structural requirements of 100 psf uniform load or 300lbs concentrated load. I would ask to see the signed and sealed shop drawings and calculations to confirm that they fabricated to what was designed.

The handrails don’t meet IBC either, as they are required to extend one tread depth beyond the bottom riser.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Future ND Owner 04/29/2019 at 16:12

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Yeah. I just had a quick chat with him about it and he gave me a “It’s only monday and there’s too much shit this week” look....so t his is going to be Tuesday me’s problem.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 17:32

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At some point there should be shop drawings and fabrication drawings.  Seems like either they skipped that step, or can’t fabricate steel.  Either way, seems like a pretty poor final -ish product.  Who holds their contract?  You or a general contractor?  You’ll probably want somebody that can review those for code compliance to take a look for your applicable location.  

Fuckkinja > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/29/2019 at 22:46

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Send a pic of the top 2 steps to the owner of the fab shop. He will come right out and make it correct. Stairs are tough for installers. I fix lots of stairs that guys  who under bid me can’t get correct.